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Offline Maou  
#21 Posted : Monday, November 24, 2014 1:45:19 AM(UTC)
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That is where you are wrong. Most ancient cultures had their religion fully integrated with their lives. It would be impossible to gather to certain places on a regular basis so their religion would seem more akin to customs. Many stories in ancient myth offer sacrifices to a god, spirit, monster, dragon, or other supernatural deity. Overtime we separated these things based on religion, but old myths do include virgin sacrifices and do tie in with the religion. These stories aren't as common now however as Christians tend to be pyromaniacs that believe fire solves problems. Why preserve things that make you think differently or have a different view point when you can burn them. They they destroyed millenia of culture in decades. You'll also find accounts of this in many human societies so don't limit yourself to western civilization and also look at prior civilizations. You'll find plenty.
Offline Rosver  
#22 Posted : Monday, November 24, 2014 5:46:16 AM(UTC)
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That is why I'm asking resources because I never really have come to a religion that requires virgin sacrifice. I also read about other civilizations. I especially study a lot about Eastern Civilization like India.

There are of course such sacrifices here and there occuring but not religious. Mostly they are dome by cults. Well, unless we consider cults as religion, then you might be right.

Also most virgin sacrifices I come upon are made up by Christians like those demon sacrifices and so, and I'm almost sure they are not real.

Also many religion doesn't really use blood/human sacrifices. Many use animal sacrifices. Some offer food and wine. Mostly they just create a place of worship. The fact is, even though human sacrifices does happen, it is very rare. Many religion doesn't really do that.
Offline Tizzy  
#23 Posted : Monday, November 24, 2014 10:11:01 PM(UTC)
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Well...not sure if this is technically a virgin sacrifice (probably depends on who you talk to, but considering his best "girl" friend was a prostitute...he might not have been a virgin..)

The religion I'm talking about is one I found on an Earth. There was this man, about 33, going around with a new message about his culture's god. While there's a lot written about him, no mention of any sexual activities in the mainstream documents. Anyway one thing leads to another, and the "God" of the religion arranges a series of events so that this prophet/messiah type gets executed by the local government.

This execution ends with his blood being let from his side by a spear wielder into a large cup/bowl. Imbuing it with mystical powers.

Anyway, this ended up being a martyrdom that started a whole new religion surrounding this martyr.

In this creepy religion, his followers gather regularly to ritualistically consume his flesh and drink his blood. And according the the older version of his church, the bread and wine they drink in remembrance of him literally transubstantiates in the mouth of the worshiper to become the actual flesh and blood of their messiah. If you don't believe this, they kick you out of the religion.

After the death of the messiah, the religion said they no longer needed to kill goats or lambs as sacrifices because their messiah was one big human/divine sacrifice, a "lamb of god" so to speak and its sacrifice, and the ritualistic drinking of his blood and consumption of his flesh banished the need for more sacrifices.

So anyway...this creepy cannibalistic religion started with human sacrifice, and very possibly a virginal sacrifice.

Offline Rosver  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 1:21:21 AM(UTC)
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That was a interesting twist Tizzy.

Well, your version matches closely to Roman Catholic. There are other various religions that is based on this mythology though and most don't agree with the Roman Catholic's version.

Also, while the missiah migt be virginal, the sacrifice isn't a virgin sacrifice. The virgin part isn't technically necessary it seems for the sacrifice.
Offline Rosver  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 1:21:38 AM(UTC)
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That was a interesting twist Tizzy.

Well, your version matches closely to Roman Catholic. There are other various religions that is based on this mythology though and most don't agree with the Roman Catholic's version.

Also, while the missiah migt be virginal, the sacrifice isn't a virgin sacrifice. The virgin part isn't technically necessary it seems for the sacrifice.
Offline Tizzy  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:43:37 PM(UTC)
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Yes, a completely unexpected bonus (if he was a virgin) and not necessary.

However, I am not sure that the sheep and goats that the original tribes sacrificed were virgins.

It's just always struck me that a religion based on a human sacrifice and ritualized cannibalism is considered "the good guys"

That doesn't leave me much room to get darker and creepier when I start my own "Evil" religion.

Offline Madfox11  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, December 2, 2014 11:35:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rosver Go to Quoted Post
Also many religion doesn't really use blood/human sacrifices. Many use animal sacrifices. Some offer food and wine. Mostly they just create a place of worship. The fact is, even though human sacrifices does happen, it is very rare. Many religion doesn't really do that.


Depends how far back you look and how you define religious human sacrifice. The Mayans, Atzecs, and Celts most assuredly sacrificed humans, even if their later conquerors likely exaggarated the numbers for public relational purposes. Furthermore, when god-king emporers kill their slaves, servants and wives/concubines at their death to be buried with them, it could be considered a religious sacrifce. Mind you, I have never come across any reference to virginity in regards to human sacrifice except in the relative modern/christinized versions of myths and fairy tales either. Of course, little is known about the details of said religions and most of what is known is through the conquerors who have reason to put their targets in a bad light.
Offline Tizzy  
#28 Posted : Wednesday, December 3, 2014 3:53:28 AM(UTC)
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Egyptians...very good example...

Clearly, if the Pharaoh is a god, making sure he has servants in the afterlife by killing his current servants is definitely a sacrifice...someone else could have used them
Offline Rosver  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, December 3, 2014 2:41:56 PM(UTC)
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You kind of stretching the definition of human sacrifice. People offer sacrifice to propitiate or gain favor from a god or gods. Your examples, doesn't really abide this. Even the Pharaoh's treasures and utinsils because it is essentially owned by the Pharaohs. Slaves aren't really valued that much at those time either. They are valued like horses or cows, they aren't really considered much as 'people' those days.

Also, as I mentioned before. Human sacrifice is very rare. It might seem common because people just know very few religion. Many could say with some certaintity of knowledge about Christianity and Islam. Some others also are familiar of Judaism and ancient religion of the Greeks and Romans. Some might even recall Buddhism, Hinduism and Mormonism. Anime lovers would know Shinto. Then there are also those dead religions like those of the Ancient Egyptians, Ancient Mayans and Vikings which have some somehow survive as Comic Superheroes (like Thor) and Mythology. But then there are hundreds of tribal religions and other minor religions that are given a blanket name even though these religions are vastly different. Really, people have very limited knowledge about other people's religions. You will be surprised at whats out there.
Offline Tizzy  
#30 Posted : Thursday, December 4, 2014 2:13:06 AM(UTC)
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Well, several of the Central American groups did actually do human sacrifice.

Very typically it was warriors of the opposing tribe who were captured in battle and then had their hearts cut out in the temple.

Aztecs, Mayans and Zapotec.

I know this because I visited them at various points in time. The sacrificial life forces were enough to power a demon conjuring to get me there.

I loved wearing my great feathered headdress. For some reason though they thought I was rather anthro-serpentish...admittedly, I do have a rather extended torso but calling me a feathered serpent always seemed like a stretch.

I'd promised to come back and visit them, but the next time I had the opportunity, the Spanish had already arrived....
Offline Rosver  
#31 Posted : Thursday, December 4, 2014 4:13:49 AM(UTC)
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Again you are focusing on those that do human sacrifices but you doesn't make a mention about those that don't. This form a bias that makes it apear that human sacrifice is common when it is not. Very similar thing happens to plane crashes. Though it happen far less often than car crashes, media reporting which focuses more on plane crashes (because it is dramatic) make it appear that it happens often. People fear plane crashes while they gladly ride a car when they are more likely to die in the car than in the plane.

Hmmm. There is very little known about why Aztecs and Mayans do human sacrifices. Though I wonder why human sacrifice should power a demon conjuring. How does it work? Also, these sacrifices are for their Gods.
Offline Tizzy  
#32 Posted : Friday, December 5, 2014 1:45:58 AM(UTC)
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So I am guessing you aren't getting the feathered serpent reference to myself?

Nor to the Spaniards arriving before I could return?

Aztecs, or the Mejico's as I called them, for them it was pretty common. Mayans and Zapotec were known to do it...but not as much is known about them as the Aztecs where other tribes could rat them out to the Spaniards...and in fact they admitted to the Spaniards what they did.

I don't think anyone ever said it was common in every religion...but some did it...there are some religions that practice eating their enemies for religious purposes...not a lot...but it did happen...

But I really don't remember where this conversation started...
Offline Rosver  
#33 Posted : Saturday, December 6, 2014 3:13:57 AM(UTC)
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I'm really not getting your point now.

First, even if they do demon summoning, it is really doubtful that such acts are religious. Even if they use human sacrifices or virgin sacrifices it is surely not for religious purpose.

Second, there are many cultures that do eat their enemy's flesh, a common practice of cannibalism. However, calling it a sacrifice might be stretching it even if it is done for religious purpose.

It started when Maou makes a comment about virgin sacrifices.
Offline Tizzy  
#34 Posted : Saturday, December 6, 2014 10:08:55 PM(UTC)
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Ah, but the Aztec, Mayan and Zapotect etc were definitely religious ceremonies where they would cut out the human heart of the enemy on top of a giant pyramid and offer it up (and the life of the enemy) as a sacrifice to their gods.

Offline Rosver  
#35 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2014 12:30:03 AM(UTC)
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Its not clear if you mean my first point or my second point.

If the first point, well, if they do human sacrifice to summon demons, then it is not religious, evidently. Demons are (often) seen as enemies of gods so any offering to them is antireligious.

If the second, well, the practice you indicated isn't cannibalism. Most don't eat their enemies flesh as sacrifice to gods but to absorb their enemies strengths and powers.
Offline Tizzy  
#36 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2014 9:39:50 PM(UTC)
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Well...

No, what I'm saying is that they do it for religious purposes for their gods...according to the history books in your world.

It just so happens, they were not trying to summon me, but if I am out wandering and see something that looks like an invitation to a party...hey...I'll take it!

And so I just showed up. I suppose not that unlike what happened to poor Verigas when Tom showed up.

Except this was on a low mana plane so they needed a human sacrifice to power the summons, I heard it/intercepted it and voila!

And as I mentioned, I was wearing my feathered head dress at the time, and with my long slinky body, they decided I was Queztlecuatl and so subsequently liked to summon me for parties...
Offline Rosver  
#37 Posted : Monday, December 8, 2014 12:45:58 AM(UTC)
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I really suspect the truthfulness of your statements.

Not to mention you would have angered the Gods for appropriating the sacrifice.
Offline Tizzy  
#38 Posted : Monday, December 8, 2014 1:35:56 AM(UTC)
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Me?

I am the most honest demon in the Abyss!

Well, yes, they may have been a bit miffed, but they weren't the first over inflated mana bags that have been annoyed with me.

If I had a silver penny for every time an all powerful individual wanted to wipe me off the multiverse---well, it'd be about the same because i'd have bought Denubian Choco-Coffee(TM) with it...money just runs through my fingers...and I've got a lot of fingers for it to run through!

Offline Rosver  
#39 Posted : Monday, December 8, 2014 2:23:46 AM(UTC)
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If you had them miffed then you wouldn't have been able to party.

Repeated offense also wouldn't cool their heads.
Offline Tizzy  
#40 Posted : Monday, December 8, 2014 9:22:29 PM(UTC)
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Yes, but something always comes up and I've always escaped, diverted them.

I suppose someday I may not be so lucky.

Smody and Sammy really don't like me. Lillith isn't a big fan either.
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