Heh, heh, heh.

Yes, everything thing you point out is generally true.

The Church of Tiernon (and Torean) have been heavily compromised in Astlan (at least). I mean, heck, they once had and archdemon as the Vicar General of the Rod! That seems a bit corrupted....

Take a look at the timeline here on the site.

Some key things to keep in mind happen about a thousand years ago.

They involve the end of Anilords, the death/defeat of Ramses the Damned, the Wizard Tisdale (no relation, no relation, obviously, I would never slum it as a wizard!) ,Vicar General Exador, the invasion of Natoor and Noajar (and the pain/suffering of the Nyjyr Ennead who want to destroy the 5 Siblings) and the Dark Apostle.

And of course, while not listed on the timeline, one should keep in mind where Sentir Fallon was in all of this.

Bess has remarked several times about what a fool Ramses is for not recognizing her as a goddess from Earth when he was Pharoah. Yet, she's also hanging out with Exador, who was Vicar General of Tiernon right around the time the Rod and Rangers invaded the land of her worshipers and killed them.

Is Exador also being played by Bess? or is she sort of blind to the exact timing of when Exador worked for the Church of Tiernon in Astlan.

So yes, something very complicated is and has been going on.....

The 5 Siblings are going to have their work cut out for them.

Almost like there was a vengeful prophecy stalking them, but that would require a vengeful godlike being. Not sure where I can find one of those.

I will say that we get a lot more of the backstory of what went on with Sentir Fallon and his relationship to Tiernon in Book 4 and why they have been more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I bring in Torean because his forces along with Tiernon's were central in the campaign to conquer and wipe out the worshipers of the Nyjyr Ennead, Which is also something the two gods are rather oblivious to. And it's related in the spaghetti sort of way all divine machinations are...

The thing about these plots is that they go on for thousands of years and sometimes it gets very hard to see the forest for all the trees. When you have multiple intersecting conspiracies that are working for thousands of years, it's very hard to spot them until they strike at you.

To be fair, that's exactly how we at Doom were caught off guard four thousand years ago. So, in that sense, we are not in a good position to throw stones at Tiernon or Torean's houses.

Also gods tend to do terrible things to each other Horus once accidentaly cut Isis Head of and she still forgave him. Anything not permanent seems to be forgiveable for gods

Actually, the corruption of the Church may be even more complicated and far reaching, just because of the lacunas at the end of the last book seem to imply a divine vendetta of Olympian proportions.

Tizzy mentioned that Danu used to be a part of the Etonian Pantheon (the Mother Goddess to the Pantheon) so that alone explains why (besides massive death and destruction on that plane) Tiernon would want a quick end to the conflict. Having his stepbrother and the only non-incarcerated parent figure and her other family fighting might not be good from a personal perspective.

As for the corruption, if one were to assume that Dysnoma and her cohort had figured out what had happened to her mother quite a while ago and her plans were more complex and far reaching than was immediately apparent one can make all sorts of interesting and amusing assumptions.
She would obviously not just want to take down Orcus but destroy what he built and who helped him build it.

1. Since a few thousand years are not an issue for a Goddess, performing hit and run attacks as a precursor to actually setting up her brother to die would be logical, especially if said attacks aren't obvious and can't be traced back to her.

2. Sing-kun was a known associate of Orcus, and part of his primary support structure. Arranging to have him trapped in some would not be immediately raise any red flags, since apparently this happened often. She just had to make sure it took for longer than usual. Having done so, she would have weakened Orcus' support structure.

3. Loki was another part of that structure. Loki was part of a pantheon that had a end-times mythology as part of its primary structure, as such, helping cause Ragnarok would have been an elegant way to get Loki off the playing field. I imagine Loki showing up on Etterdam would have unbalanced things a bit more in favor of Orcus.

4. Giving Sentir Fallon the Frostmourne treatment from Warcraft (slightly modified of course) and relying on him to bless the weapon to hide her involvement is actually ingenius, especially since the corrupted dagger could then be further used to influence mortals and avatars alike.

5. Hephaestus would be a phenominally hard deity to actually kill /inconvenience because he is in multiple pantheons and is the patron god of an entire species. But she could cause him pain by stripping his wife and her family, a family he likes a ton more than his own, of all their power and worshippers, so the predations of the Etonians make more sense, especially the coordination.

6. Volund would actually just retreat into his mountain if he had no one who he cared to associated with around. As such, not much of a threat.

7. The Etonians would be facing massive backlash over their avatars actions as well as their own, and them having to suddenly face the combined might of the gods of light, whether through a tribunal or whatever will most probably be uncomfortable for them, and probably weaken them on some level, making it easier for Dysnoma and her buddies to strike from the shadows.

As said, fun and amusing assumptions.

I, of course, can wholly agree with your assessment.

I am thinking involuntary cycling is definitely in order!

As to the course of appearances, well that depends on the localverse. In Astlan, definitely, in Nysegard definitely not. Also in localverses with more Olympian influences, Orcus is still recognized as a god. In fact, on Tom's Earth, he was still worshiped as a god after he was killed by Sentir Fallon, as recently as a thousand or so Earth years ago, certainly 1500 years ago. Same with Dis Pater.

He (even though dead) was eventually recognized as a demon on that Earth, but that was basically the demiurge's people demonizing local gods and such. Although the Norse also had something to do with that...[I point out that Orcus was on Loki's side during Ragnarok, so you can guess why they were demonizing him]

But yes, in a large number of localverses where they both exist, they appear to be diametrically opposed.

Also even within a localverse it can vary down to the planet level. I point out that Nysegard and Astlan are in the same localverse, just different planets orbiting different stars.

And, it can also vary among the races.

But this is very common for gods, a god might be evil to some people and good to others and depending on which pantheon they are working in.

This is why, for example, we demons scoff at the idea of good and evil. It's all just narcissism vs altruism. And the second, in my experience is just the absence of first.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 30, 2019 6:30:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Well, they were brothers in law and "might be a spoiler/maybe you didn't catch it" ...

Ahhhh, if only things were so simple....bwah hah hah, there is even more afoot than meets the eye.....


Things will be getting a wee bit more complicated than they are now.

Vengeful Tizzy? Ah, so sweet, I really like you! I wish I could get gods to fear my wrath! I'd have pleasant dreams tonight thinking about that if I actually ever slept.

Now, 'narcissistic god' is what we call an ox-brained-moron, i.e. it's redundant.

However, the first word is Olympian in origin, and you have to remember, Orcus is an Olympian with lots of relatives.

However, more frightening is that Orcus has a giant, dank, dark, hole into which he can throw people from anywhere in the universe, as long as he gets within a few feet of you. (OK, technically, opening the Oubliette is a bit trickier--and there is no guarantee we can restrain our victim at the end, but..no one outside of Tartarus knows the details)

Civil war? Not really. I think what is going to happen is a major shakeup with Archons and lesser divine personages changing sides and allegiances in order to keep their positions. I have the desperate hope the Sentir gets tossed down the oubliette.

Maybe? Maybe not? I'll hide it to be safe. Not saying.