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Offline Konicomi  
#1 Posted : Monday, March 26, 2018 10:08:54 PM(UTC)
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Baragamos knows who Orcus really is and that he is not "Evil" also the fact that he was killed against Tiernons wishes and is not a demon prince that would cause unneeded trouble for most innocents so why during meetings does he talk about trying to find out how far flung his Macanations are spread?
Offline Rakshasa  
#2 Posted : Monday, March 26, 2018 10:30:00 PM(UTC)
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Well keep in mind that during most of those meetings he wasn't certain that the demon they were discussing was actually Orcus. Some of the details made him suspicious, but you can't plan based purely on suspicions.

And, moreover despite the fact that Orcus isn't "evil" per-say that doesn't mean that he hasn't (and won't again) come into conflict with the 5 siblings over some things. Obviously, they usually wouldn't have been at the level as what happened on Etterdam because of the fact that they don't actually want him killed and potentially freeing their mutual parents... but he IS technically opposed to being a god on principle.
Offline Konicomi  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2018 6:16:22 PM(UTC)
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yes but he had a oath with the 5 siblings of loyalty and fraternity that they broke on emtterdam when orcus was fighting neet and im guessing sentier told the churches to go against orcus however he didn't go against them until then due to keeping his oath as he always did and it is true he didnt know for sure it was orcus however when speaking about finding out about his machinations he was assuming it was orcus reborn at the time and just because he didnt want to be a god didnt make him evil he was on the side of the underdog not the "evil" like the knights of chaos he was theoretically against true evil based on him building a prison and imprisoning his seriously evil mother based on greek mythos
Offline Konicomi  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2018 6:20:26 PM(UTC)
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another confusion i have for volume 2 is how do you demonize arachnids? how do you get them to smoke the weed?
Offline Tizzy  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2018 6:41:47 PM(UTC)
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Yes on all that above about who knew what.

Big thing is: only the 5, Beragamos and a few really high level avatars of the 5 had any clue as to who Orcus was, and then the dirty little secret about locking up dear old mom and dad? That is super hush hush.

Sentir Fallon "officially" did/does not. Or let me put it this way, Tiernon and Beragamos believe that Sentir Fallon does not know who Orcus is/was and how he was related to him. See the conversation Tiernon had about how upset he was when Sentir Fallon slew Orcus and why he could not punish him.

So for the point of view of the meetings, Beragamos has to officially be concerned about a) demon and later b) a demon prince screwing around with them. And, as mentioned, Tiernon and the avatars "in the know" are paranoid about Orcus' wrath. Killing Orcus broke a lot of oaths.

So before they knew it was Orcus, their concern in the meeting was very real. Once they started to suspect, they had the obvious real concern about him wanting vengeance and Beragamos even more so, since he knew that it was a much bigger betrayal/screw up than anyone else knew and that it was also far more problematic than the other avatars thought.

Except of course for Sentir Fallon, as to what he did or did not know when? We learn that in Book 4.

As for spiders, they can eat weed, I suppose. I know they really like my cookies.

However, there are quite a few different fauna in the Abyss, I don't think anyone is taking credit for creating the demon spiders, although I could be wrong.
thanks 1 user thanked Tizzy for this useful post.
Konicomi on 3/28/2018(UTC)
Offline Rakshasa  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:01:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Konicomi Go to Quoted Post
yes but he had a oath with the 5 siblings of loyalty and fraternity that they broke on emtterdam when orcus was fighting neet and im guessing sentier told the churches to go against orcus however he didn't go against them until then due to keeping his oath as he always did and it is true he didnt know for sure it was orcus however when speaking about finding out about his machinations he was assuming it was orcus reborn at the time and just because he didnt want to be a god didnt make him evil he was on the side of the underdog not the "evil" like the knights of chaos he was theoretically against true evil based on him building a prison and imprisoning his seriously evil mother based on greek mythos


Actually, saying the 5 siblings broke their Oath isn't fair. Tiernon and Torean broke the oath. The other 3 made it pretty clear in Apostles of Doom that they told their followers not to oppose Orcus, and that they were angry with their brothers for not doing the same. This doesn't, of course, mean that Orcus won't hold all 5 responsible for what happened... just that 3 of them are technically not oath breakers.

As for Orcus not being aggressive against the 5 siblings on Etterdam... well he probably wasn't in a position where he could. Fighting Net's forces alone was probably a serious drain for Doom, pretty sure he is the El'asdir God of War. He did have most of his D'Orcs on Etterdam at that time (noted by the D'Orcs on Nysegard being so few after his death) which shows that he needed to draw down forces elsewhere to have enough might to oppose Net. I suspect that Sentir Fallon, being the deceptive and treacherous bastard that he is, likely didn't bring the church into direct opposition with Orcus until shortly before they were ready to kill Orcus. Obviously, that could easily be a few decades but that still wouldn't have let Orcus enough time to start punishing his step-brother for the "betrayal"... especially since he had no idea that he was about to be "permanently" destroyed by an antimus filled dagger. Note: I'm not saying that the Etterdam Church of Tiernon hadn't entered the conflict against the Orcs and D'Orcs prior to Sentir Fallon... just that they weren't a major threat without Sentir Fallon who undoubtedly brought other Tierhallic (i.e. heavenly assets, mana, Saints, Archons, etc) support.

And I agree, he isn't evil. I'm pretty sure I specified that he isn't evil, just that his opposition to other gods could bring him into conflict with his step-siblings on occasion.
thanks 1 user thanked Rakshasa for this useful post.
Konicomi on 3/28/2018(UTC)
Offline Konicomi  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 28, 2018 12:09:27 AM(UTC)
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Good point thank you both for the explanations Baragamos motivations make much more since I always like to know what motivates characters to act how they do so i can understand who they are. As for the spiders I took Hephaestus using them in all his gate rooms and the fact that no one in the abyss even knew they existed to mean that either he or Orcus created them. I guess it would be easier to have trial and errors on getting them d'arachnified seeing how easy it would be to catch a spider and a)feed them cookies (although as you said in volume 3 that is a waste of your epicurean delights) or b) smoke them like you would a bee hive I guess that could work although getting their true name to bring them from the astral plane might be difficult unless naming them yourself counts as their true name. Now that I say all this Tizzy it seems only you would have the patients and be *cough* crazy *cough* .... i mean smart enough to even try to do something like this!
Offline Mikey  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, March 28, 2018 3:08:43 PM(UTC)
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Offline Tizzy  
#9 Posted : Friday, March 30, 2018 10:07:00 PM(UTC)
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Hmm

Sitting around granting true names to arachnid eggs....I wonder what poor schlub demon would get stuck with that unenviable task?

Seems like a good job for Bellyachus....

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